To Make a Creamapple Pie

Much of my historical cooking demonstration experience revolves around the Elizabethan period, that is, food from the reign of England's Queen Elizabeth I in the late 1500s.  It is acceptable to cook medieval recipes for this time period, but it really helps to have resources that match up with that era.  

One very good resource is Elinor Fettiplace's Receipt Book:  Elizabethan Country House Cooking as brought to us by Hilary Spurling.  Ms. Fettiplace was married to Sir Richard Fettiplace of Appleton Manor in Oxfordshire.  You can read more about her here.  Ms. Spurling is an author who cooked from the book for ten years before publishing it.  You can read more about her here.

Ms. Fettiplace wrote her receipt book (we use "recipe" instead of "receipt") by hand, passed it on to other family members who added to it and then passed it on.  Ms. Spurling acquired the book when it was inherited by her husband, John Spurling.

What I like about it is that the receipts are closer to what "ordinary" people would have made, keeping in mind that the Fettiplace family had more wealth than the average lower class worker.  When you read the recipes, you see many simple and tasty dishes and not the elaborate ones used by the very wealthy to impress at feasts.  

I chose a receipt on page 58, To Make a Creamapple Pie.  There are so many other receipts I want to try!

ISBN 0-670-81592-6

The way to format receipts in the Elizabethan times was in paragraph form.  This uses less space than our modern format.  It also gives few (if any) measurements and cooking times.  Measurements depend on the quantities you have available and cooking times depend on the size of the oven and the size of the fire that heats its.  Ms. Fettiplace assumes you have, or will get, experience in judging all this.  Fortunately, Ms. Spurling gives us her redaction, which I used but organized to our modern standards.

Original Receipt

Take your apples, & slice them, & put some butter & sugar to them, & so put them in the paste, & bake them, when they are baked cut open the pie, & put in a great deal of sweet cream, & stir it well togither, & then let it stand a little, till it bee somewhat cold, & so serve it to the boord.

Redaction

2 pounds tart cooking apples (see notes)

4 rounded tablespoons brown sugar

"a good-sized knob of butter" (I used nearly 1/4 cup)

1/2 pint cream (I used more)

dough for a two-crust, 9-inch pie

Two pounds apples is just four of these.

Preheat oven to 375 degrees F (or 350 degrees if the pie pan is glass or ceramic).

Line the pie pan with the bottom crust.

Quarter and core the apples, then slice thinly, leaving the peel on.  Spread in pie pan, piling it up higher in the middle than at the edge of the pan knowing they will settle while cooking.

Sprinkle the brown sugar over the top of the apples.  

Cut the cold butter into chips and slivers, and sprinkle them across the top of the apples.  I just held the knob over the pan and chipped away at it, letting the pieces fall onto the pie.

Cut several holes in the top crust then place on the pie.  Seal the top and bottom edges together.

Bake for 45 minutes.

As soon as the pie is out of the oven, use a funnel to help pour the cream into the holes.  Pour in as much cream as it will hold without overflowing.

Let cool to room temperature.  

Notes

I live in California, so the apples Ms. Spurling recommends, Bramley, are not available.  The internet told me that Granny Smith, Braeburn, Cortland, or Winesap are good substitutes, so I got Granny Smith.  These are green, tart cooking apples and are known to hold their shape when cooked. 

I bought 2 pints of cream and was glad because the pie took 1 1/4 pints until it was full.  Maybe because I used a 9-inch pan and piled the apples up so high?

I wanted to try Ms. Fettiplace's idea of cutting open the pie, but modified the idea to baking the top crust with parchment paper along the edges to keep it from sticking to the bottom crust.  You will see the paper in the pictures.  This idea did not work out as the top crust stuck to the apples and started to break when I attempted lifting it.  So I used Ms. Spurling's idea of using a funnel to pour the cream into the vent holes once I pulled the paper strips away.  The top sealed to the bottom anyway while cooling.

This crust experience makes me think that Ms. Fettiplace used a more robust and/or flexible pie crust than the store-bought one I used.  She felt you could cut it open and not have it break up at all.

Use this many apples

With sugar and butter

Skip the paper strips.  Just add the crust with vent holes.

Beautiful!

Now it is a creamapple pie.

The Verdict

It looked beautiful out of the oven and cooled.  

Cooled and ready to eat.

It sliced wonderfully.  The cream had set during the cooling process and did not pour out of the crust once it was cut.

No runny cream!

My regular guest taster and I loved it.  It was not an apple pie as our taste buds expected as it didn't contain the spices such as cinnamon that our tastebuds expected.  But the apple flavor was there and the cream added a richness and, well, creaminess to the experience.  The crust delivered a nice crunch, too.

I felt I should have sliced the apples thinner.  Not that they were bad, but I felt that some needed a little more cooking.  So perhaps I could have left it in the oven another 10 minutes or so, but I worried I would burn the crust.

We both tried to imagine if cinnamon or cardamom or other spices would be a good addition.  Maybe.  But the pie as it was had a unique flavor, and I'm not sure I want to change that.

Two more guest tasters tried it.  One did not like it because she tasted a "tang" that reminded her of sour cream, which she dislikes.  The other enjoyed it but noticed that it was not the "usual" apple pie - she missed the spices she expected.  So she wasn't thrilled as we were but she liked it.

Ms. Spurling commented that the pie should not be served cold as the butter coagulates and is not pleasant to eat.  We warmed our refrigerated leftovers in the microwave for just long enough to remove the chill from the pie.  That worked out well.

Success!  Give it a try but be prepared for something different than what our tastebuds have been trained to expect from an apple pie.  You might use red (less tart) apples instead of the Granny Smiths.

Guisado de carne de puerco, Pork meat stew -- a Pinedo recipe

I was perusing the Pinedo cookbook looking for inspiration - what recipe did I want to do today?  I had a fresh pork loin in the fridge, so I focused on a recipe that used it.  Now I think I have stated previously:  I love meat-and-fruit combinations, so this recipe caught my full attention.  Pork and pineapple!  And a lovely group of spices.

On page 114 is Guisado de carne de puerco, or Pork meat stew.  It looked simple to prepare (boy, did I need that!) and needs a lot of time to slow-cook everything.

My Translation

My Redaction

1 medium brown onion

1 1/2 teaspoons chopped garlic

3.4 pound boneless pork loin

3/4 teaspoon salt

1 tablespoon dried oregano

1 teaspoon whole coriander (you will want more)

1/4 teaspoon ground cloves

1 tablespoon dried parsley

1 tablespoon sugar

3 ounces white wine

1 ounce white wine vinegar

4 ounces chicken broth

1- 20 ounce can pineapple chunks in juice

2 tablespoons butter

And the butter.

Peel and chop the onion into medium dice.  Melt the butter in a Dutch oven.  Add the onion and garlic.  Saute slowly over medium low heat (3 of 10) until transluscent.  

Meanwhile, preheat a small, dry skillet over medium heat (5 of 10).  Place the coriander in it and start stirring, constantly, until the seeds are golden brown.  Place in a mortar or spice mill and crush.

Cut the meat into big, bite-sized chunks.  Place in a large bowl.  Sprinkle the oregano, parsley, coriander, cloves, and salt over the meat.  Toss them together to distribute the seasonings on the meat.

Put the meat into the Dutch oven.  Sprinkle on the sugar.  Pour the broth, wine, and vinegar over the top.

Drain the pineapple.  If the chunks are large, coarsely chop them.  Add to the Dutch oven.

Stir everything well.  Bring the liquid to just barely boiling, then reduce the heat to low (1 of 10).  

Cover the pan and cook, stirring occasionally, for 1 1/2 hours or until the meat is very tender.  The stew should be barely simmering.

Untoasted coriander on the left.  Toasted in the mortar, just before crushing.  

Ready to slow cook.

After 1 1/2 hours.

My Notes

I laughed at how the recipe does not include measurements for everything except the sugar.  I guess that no matter how much pork and et cetera you have, you should only use one tablespoon sugar.

I could have used fresh oregano and parsley, but I chose to use dried, just for convenience.  

The Verdict

I served it with white rice on the side.

First I tasted the liquid with it.  It was slightly sweet, but more savory, and the flavors of the spices and herbs came through.  I was glad the vinegar was not dominant, but it seemed to balance out the sweet of the pineapple and the umami of the cooked pork and chicken broth.

Then I tasted the meat.  It was so very tender!  But not overcooked, so still a touch firm, which I liked.  

The onions and garlic were subtle background flavors.  I could barely tell they were there.  The pineapple was cooked to tender, too.  

My guest taster and I both thought the salt level was just right.

We both agreed, however, that the herbal flavors were dominant, and we thought that did not seemed balanced.  So we added some (non-toasted) ground coriander to our bowls of stew and stirred it in.  That was much better!  It seemed to reduce the impact of the herbs in a very positive way.  Definitely more balanced.

So I added a teaspoon of ground coriander to the rest of the stew.  I have not tried it yet, but I think it will be fine.

I recommend using 2 teaspoons or more of the whole coriander to see if that suits your tastebuds.

Success!

We enjoyed it, especially with the rice to mix with the stew's liquid.  It is not a blockbuster meal as the flavors are not bold, but it is a nice, shall I say "calm" meal.  Not everything has to knock your tastebuds over.  

There was enough stew left over that we look forward to having it for another dinner.

Mustasole, an Italian cookie with connections to immigration

I was studying the food opportunities (or lack thereof!) of people who traveled steerage class in the 1800s and early 1900s, when I came across a recipe that caught my attention.  It is from The Ellis Island Immigrant Cookbook, written by Tom Bernardin.  Click here to find it online.  Mr. Bernardin worked at the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island Immigration Museum sites, giving tours and developing a slide show on the history of Ellis Island which he presented many times.  In the process, he decided he needed to gather the recipes from the immigrants, employees, and their families.  His book was the result of these efforts.

ISBN:  0-9629198-4-5

His recipes came from 33 countries and often were accompanied by stories from the person who sent them, telling about the immigrant family member or the memories they had of the food.  As someone who is interested in food history, I marvel at the old methods of cooking contained in these recipes.  For example, one called "Biscuit de Reims" starts with: 

Take 9 eggs and weigh them and take the same weight in sugar.

Take 6 eggs and weigh them and take the same weight in flour.

Take 3 eggs and weigh them and take the same weight in butter. 

We don't think about measuring that way, but imagine a person who cannot determine in advance how much an egg from her hens would weigh.  Also keep in mind that standardized measurements were not common until the early 1900s (thank you, Fannie Farmer!), but using the weighing method - no matter what unit you worked in - should work.

The recipe I choose to make is called Mustasole, which is probably a spelling variant of Mustazzoli or Mostaccioli.  It is possible the name originated from the Roman words meaning "cake made with must."  Must is freshly squeezed, unfiltered grape juice; sometimes it is cooked to concentrate the flavors and intensify the sugars, and this is called "saba."  

This recipe is made with honey, so the flavor profile would be different than one using must.  The final goal is to make a cookie that is hard when dry but soft when moist, lasts for months or even years without spoiling, and does not make crumbs.

On page 116, we find mustasole recipe along with a reminiscence from the contributor, Ms. Saiia, revealing how her family and others used these cookies for nutrition on the sea voyage.

Mustasole

3 cups sifted all-purpose flour in a bowl

1 1/2 cups sifted all-purpose flour in a cup

1 1/2 cups melted honey, warm

1/4 teaspoon salt

1/2 teaspoon vanilla or lemon flavor

Place 3 cups flour in bowl, add hot honey, salt, flavor and mix well.  Add more flour to make very stiff dough, knead on a board till smooth.  Place in bowl and cover and let rest for at least 12 hours, not in refrigerator.  Divide in 4 pieces - knead each till smooth, using little flour.  Shape as you would children's clay - build on ungreased cookied sheets - add little oil on top and shine, or water to make it stick.  Bake at 325 degrees for 15 to 20 minutes (gas or electric varies) till golden brown.  Remove from pan while hot and lay on flat surface to harden.  (Limp when hot - hard when cold.)  No crumbs.

My Notes

I chose to use vanilla, although the lemon had me intrigued.  

I heated the honey in the microwave for about 1 1/2 minutes, so it was hot and very liquid.

I mixed all the ingredients in the bowl with a spoon until the dough was not as sticky.  Then I moved it to the cutting board that was dusted with flour.  I kneaded it by hand, adding flour, until the dough was smooth, firm, and not sticky when touched quickly.  I noticed that when the dough sat for a minute or two, it started to stick to the board.

The bowl for resting was lightly dusted with flour and I put the dough in that.  I covered it with a cloth and let it rest for 30 hours (it was a busy time!). 

There was about 3/4 cup of flour left of the 1 1/2 cups.  Flour can absorb different amounts of liquid depending on when the wheat was harvested or ground or how old the flour is, so having this extra was good.  

All bowl ingredients, before stirring.

Stirred, but with no extra flour added.

Stirred with extra flour added.  Ready for kneading.

Kneaded and ready for a rest.

Notice the instructions don't specify the thickness of the dough.  I tried thick (about 1/2 inch), thin (about 1/4 inch), and very thin (less than 1/4 inch).  I noticed that the thick took more than 20 minutes to get golden brown, thin about 15 minutes, and very thin about 8 minutes.  So aim for 1/4 inch thick.

So for thick I used my hands to roll a log and then pound it flat.  I used a bench scraper to cut the pieces.

For thin and very thin, I used a small wooden rolling pin.  This was amusing because with 1/4 of the dough, it rolled very, very long and narrow!

I played with the size of the shapes while the oven preheated.  

For the thick.

For the thin!

The dough doesn't spread, you can place them close together on the pan.  

Thick.  I didn't think they would spread, but I was careful anyway.

Thin.  Crowd them together!

Baked thick.

Baked thin.

The Verdict

The one recipe made a basket full of mustasole of all three thicknesses.

Liberty cookies!

They were as hard as rocks once they cooled down.  After a few days in the basket, they had absorbed some moisture from the air and were a little bit softer, especially the thin and very thin ones.

I tried eating them by soaking them in tea.  It took several minutes of watching tiny bubbles floating up from them before they were soft enough to chew without stressing my jaw joint.  Other times I broke up a cookie (thin or very thin) and put it in my mouth, holding it there until it softened from my saliva.

The flavor was good!  The honey and vanilla came shining through, which made the otherwise chewy experience pleasant.  I had to be patient while the cookie softened, so a little honey flavor in my mouth while waiting helped.

The texture was very fine, and I did not get any crumbs.  

The thick one, cut open to show the texture.

I declare it a success!  I can imagine an immigrant bringing a box of these to use as a meal supplement  (or replacement, as needed) on the ship ride, that the wait for them to get soft enough to chew made the meal seem longer, and that a taste of home would be welcome.

This recipe is very similar to the lebkuchen cookies I made previously, following a medieval recipe.  Click here to view it.  It took a few tries to get it successful, so click here to see the other post on it.  Basically, they are same, but lebkuchen has spices added to it.  Since the lebkuchen dough can sit in a container for years (supposedly with improvement), I didn't worry about the mustasole sitting on the counter for 30 hours.  I would say the mustasole has less sweetener in it, but that is just a guess. Both mustasole and lebkuchen are traditionally frosted with a chocolate glaze, if decorated at all.

I'm going to take most of the cookies, put them in a tin box, and put them in storage.  I'll check them in a few months to see how they are doing.  If there is anything important to report, I'll let you know.

Now I wonder how this cookie would do made with freshly-squeezed grape juice.  I think you would have to worry about the juice fermenting if you let it sit for at least 12 hours.  And would it store for a long time?

Tamales dulces - Sweet tamales, a Pinedo recipe

I love tamales - my father used to bring home dozens of savory chicken and pork tamales from work.  He purchased them from ladies who made them during the Christmas season, and I always felt that made them special.  Imagine how my sweet tooth reacted the day I learned about sweet tamales. 

Encarnación Pinedo included 11 tamale recipes in her Tamales section.  I have previously did one of them:  Click here for Part 1 and click here for Part 2 .  Three of her recipes are labeled as sweet tamales.  

The one I tried for today is on page 260, and is the second recipe on that page labeled as "Tamales dulces."

My Translation

My Redaction

3 pounds masa

1/2 pound butter, melted

8 egg yolks

1 1/2 cup sugar

7 cups hot water or more

1 cup raisins

1 cup slivered almonds

1/8 cup sesame seeds

2 tablespoons cinnamon

1 pound bag of corn husks

Rinse the corn husks, changing the water frequently, then set them aside to drain and soften.  I put them in a colander over a towel.

In a VERY LARGE bowl, mix the masa, butter, egg yolks, and sugar.  Add the water and mix well.  Add more water if the mixture is stiff.

Using a sturdy spoon (that won't bend or break), whip the dough until it gets lighter in color, smoother in texture, and the egg yolks no longer look like yellow dots in the masa (they are distributed better).  I used my stand mixer and whipped the dough in batches because there was so much, then I mixed the batches together by hand in the bowl.

Mix in the raisins, almonds, sesame seeds, and cinnamon.  It is well-mixed when the cinnamon looks evenly distributed through the dough.

Spread the mixture on a husk.  Fold up the bottom, then fold in the sides, then fold over the top.  

Have a large kettle ready with hot water on the bottom and some sort of tray over it.  The tamales should sit over the water.  Pile them in, but not too densely.  Cover them with some husks or a piece of parchment paper. If you are steaming multiple batches (and you will, if you make the whole recipe!), you can reuse the husks covering.

Put the lid on the kettle and heat the water to steaming.  Turn the heat down so that the steaming continues but is not boiling all the water off.

Steam the tamales for 1 to 1 1/2 hours, depending on how many are in the kettle and how big they are.

Check for steaming and if more water needs to be added.

Remove tamales and let cool.  Serve warm or room temperature.

That is a very large bowl.  Masa and such before water was added.

Masa mixture with water, ready to be whipped.

Whipped masa.  Lighter in color, smoother in texture.

With raisins, sesame, almonds, and cinnamon.

All well blended.  By hand!

Small amount.  Ready to wrap.

Wrapped.

Ready to steam.  Maybe not so many next time.

Steamy!  Done!

My Notes

For the record, this is a huge amount of dough.  You might want to reduce the recipe by half or more so it can fit in the bowl of a stand mixer.  Seriously, I think my arms are strong enough now to compete in rowing!  

Seven cups of water is not my definition of  "a little hot water."  I think it would have been better to use 8 or 9.  The dough was too stiff, I think, and I should have been more generous with the water.  You don't want the dough runny, but it should be soft and spreadable.  

Some websites suggest steaming them for less time.  I can't really comment on that.

I was taking some to a gathering where we wanted nibbles for everyone, so I made many small tamales.  The goal was 3 to 4 bites each.  Once I had about 35 small ones, I made bigger ones.  Some of the husks were big enough that I split them in half for the small tamales.  Overall, I got nearly 70 tamales.

I used all the husks in my bag and still had some dough left over.  I wrapped it in parchment paper instead of husks to see how that would work.

The Verdict

I asked the people at the gathering to give me feedback, negative or positive.  The responses were mixed.  Several said, "Not a fan."  Mostly it seemed that the texture was bothering them.  Some thought there was not a lot of flavor.  Others said they liked it; they thought the flavors were balanced and good.  Several liked it enough that they asked to take some tamales home, which I gladly agreed to, considering how many were left at my home.  

Cooked.

The interior, to show the texture.  Too dense, I think.

My take?  I wanted there to be some salt in it.  Just a little.  I wanted more raisins.  And a lot more cinnamon.  And some more sugar, although everyone I asked thought the sweetness level was just right.  I could not taste the sesame seeds, but I'm not sure I wanted more in there.  I think I would leave them out completely.  The almonds were a good addition, although I think chopped almonds would have been better than slivered.  

I had the advantage of tasting several tamales over several days, and I noticed that the texture was not consistent.  Some were dense and firm, others were soft and tender.  The point of whipping the dough is to mix in air and make the mixture smoother before cooking.  That results in a tender texture, which is pleasant to eat.  So I suspect I was not giving some batches enough time in the stand mixer to fully whip them, or I piled too many tamales into the kettle and they didn't steam well.

One guest taster, who tried them over several days, noted that they were very good with coffee in the morning.  He wanted more raisins and nuts in them and wished they were all large.  He called them a "Mexican scone."  

Success, but with caveats.  Unless you have a very large bowl and a sturdy spoon, make a smaller version of it.

I'm not sure if using both the husks and the lid as covers were necessary.  It might be that she did not think of using both, and if your kettle doesn't have a lid, the husks would do the trick.  I have not used both the few times before I've made tamales, and the lid did just fine.

Several of us thought the tamales were best serve heated, for example for about 20 seconds in the microwave. Definitely not good served cold. 

The paper-wrapped tamales were fine.  I did not see a difference between them and the husk-wrapped ones.  

At the gathering, some people expressed surprise at the existence of sweet tamales.  They only had experienced savory, meat-filled one.  I was glad to expand their knowledge.

Hot Fudge Sundae Cake!

Sometimes you want (AKA I want!) dessert and the impulse is to have something from your (my) youth.  Of course I want chocolate, too.  What came to mind was a cake that also has pudding with it.

I recall the title of the recipe to be something like "Impossible Cake" or "Pudding Cake," however Betty Crocker calls it "Hot Fudge Sundae Cake."

The intriguing aspect of it is that you make a cake batter then put a topping on it, pour on hot water, and bake it.  In the process, the cake forms on top and the topping forms a sauce or pudding underneath.  Who figured this out???  

It is also interesting in that it has no eggs, which my friends who are allergic to eggs appreciate.  They don't get cake often because of eggs.  Finally, you mix the whole thing in the pan, cutting down on the amount of dishes to wash afterwards.  This is excellent.

So let's run with Betty, using her recipe on page 258 of her 1984 printing of Betty Crocker's Cookbook.

ISBN 0-307-09800-1  Sunfaded from years of ownership.

Hot Fudge Sundae Cake

1 cup all-purpose flour

3/4 cup granulated sugar

2 tablespoons cocoa

2 teaspoons baking powder

1/4 teaspoon salt

1/2 cup milk

2 tablespoons vegetable oil

1 teaspoon vanilla

1 cup chopped nuts (optional)

1 cup packed brown sugar

1/4 cup cocoa

1 3/4 cup hottest tap water

Ice cream

No ice cream.  : (

Heat oven to 350 degrees.  Mix flour, granulated sugar, 2 tablespoons cocoa, the baking powder, and salt in ungreased square pan, 9x9x2 inches.  Mix in milk, oil and vanilla with a fork until smooth.  Stir in nuts.  Spread in pan.  Sprinkle with brown sugar and 1/4 cup cocoa.  Pour hot water over batter.

Bake 40 minutes.  While warm, spoon into dessert dishes and top with ice cream.  Spoon sauce from pan onto each serving.  9 servings.

My Notes

I chose to use pecans for the optional nuts.  

I was out of brown sugar, but did you know you can make it?  I started with granulated sugar and mixed in enough molasses to make it resemble brown sugar.  Using the wire attachment on my mixer did a good job of distributing the molasses.  I didn't measure, but I would guess about 1 1/2 cups of sugar to about 1/3 cup molasses did it.  There were some lumps that I pressed out and others I ignored.  I noticed that the leftovers were even more like brown sugar after they had set overnight.

I didn't have a 9x9 pan but I used a rectangular pan that was close in volume to the square pan.

Use a fork to mix the dry ingredients together so you can reach the corners of the pan well.  

Once the batter was made, I spread the chopped nuts over it and somewhat mixed them in with a fork.  

Sprinkle the brown sugar and cocoa evenly over the entire surface of the batter.

Dry ingredients mixed and spread in pan.

Now they are wet and spread in pan.

Nuts on top and "mixed" in.

Water added.

Done!

The Verdict

Notice the directions say to serve it warm, not hot.  I learned earlier in life that when it is hot, the sauce is too runny and difficult to serve.  When the cake is warm, the sauce is thicker.  But also, when the leftovers are cold, the sauce is a definite pudding in texture.  

It tasted exactly how I recalled it -- good!  Chocolaty in a "from cocoa" point of view, sweet but not bad, and the sauce is a nice touch.  I didn't have ice cream, but that didn't matter.  I would have chosen vanilla to complement the "hot fudge" aspect and chocolate flavor.

The cake is definitely cake.  This was the first time I had nuts with it, which I liked.  So the texture was crunchy from the nuts, chewy from the cake, and creamy from the sauce.  You really can't go wrong with this.

My guest taster thought it was rich.  I don't think it was rich as compared to a cheesecake.  

Success!

Cake above, pudding below.  Amazing!

Betty Crocker suggests modifications:  use butterscotch chips or miniature marshmallows or raisins for the nuts.  Or a mixture of peanut butter and peanuts for the nuts.

I would suggest (without having tried it) to use coffee instead of water and to include cinnamon or other sweet spices to enhance the flavors.  

There is, on the next page, a similar recipe called "Lemon Pudding Cake" (can be modified to lime), if you are not interested in chocolate.  It does call for eggs, though.